Is bi-blogging a potential ROYO?

My suggestion somewhere else for a ROYO was:
"Keeping a blog in more than one language is more than just a linguistic problem. There are a host of social, political and technical issues around posting, reading, writing, blogrolling and tagging in more than one language. I would like to explore some of these issues, share some of the practicalities, and move ahead with some ideas for designing for blogs and blogging in two languages."

Then, spurred on by a comment my post by Liz Henry and some back-channel with Pam I thought it would be interesting to do a pre-conference experiment in bilingual blogging in pairs. It could raise a load of questions and be an interesting lead-in for a ROYO session.

I'm wondering if it has potential for a ROYO session.

Submitted by Bev Trayner (view blog

) on Sun, 02/12/2006 - 07:04

Posted In

'06 Sessions forum

Comments (26)

Comments

Interesting... or do I mean Interessante?

I wish I was fluent enough in German to particpate. Translations are always fascinating and I'm a big fan or roundtripping things through machine translators to see what happens. I'll be working on my German and cheering from the sidelines.

www.nerdseyeview.com

Submitted by Pam on Mon, 02/13/2006 - 08:02

I'd like that! Let's do a

I'd like that! Let's do a ROYO. (ROOO?)

I really want to translate a few posts and have been thinking of La letra escarlata as the perfect blog for it.

I was even thinking - what if we announced a Carnival of Blog Translation? I have too many projects for any human being, but this is so interesting to pass up.

Pam, I'm not fluent enough in Spanish to translate from English to Spanish, but I can translate the other way very well. This is common for literary translators.... What if you chose a short post from a German blog, and translated it to English for us?

One of the issues of doing this is of course the possibility of making embarrassing mistakes. I try to roll with that. I've caught some very famous translators in silly mistakes. It happens! And I'm sure it will happen to me.

Another issue: who are we doing it for? Who do we think is going to read it and why?

Another: Rights and Intellectual Property. Is it okay to translate someone's blog post, and post the whole thing in another language? I would bet it is a gray area, legally, but it doesn't feel right. I feel like I should ask permission, if I'm going to translate and quote more than a couple of paragraphs.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Mon, 02/13/2006 - 12:06

Good questions

I could probably end up with a reasonable facsimile of something going from German to English, with a lot of help from a dictionary and the household native speaker. But how to select it? It seems fair use as long as we're not going all crazy and republishing an entire blog - excerpting happens all the time in English, no? Why not in translations?

I'm still mulling. And feeling insecure about my skills. I'm off to German class today, tho...

On the ROYO: When/if I make up my mind about being at Blogher, if this is on, I am there.

www.nerdseyeview.com

Submitted by Pam on Tue, 02/14/2006 - 06:19

ROOO

I love the idea of calling it a Carnaval.

I would only like to do it in partnership with a Portuguese blogger who wants their posts in English and who would translate mine to Portuguese. Apart from anything else you write differently when you know it's going for a different audience.

For me the interesting thing about it is not the technical-linguistic issues but the social and political ones. Maybe it could be a bi-lingual carnaval. My identity isn't "translator", it's more tied up in things related to negotiation of meaning.

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 02:22

Reporting, interpreting and translating

But how to select it? It seems fair use as long as we're not going all crazy and republishing an entire blog - excerpting happens all the time in English, no? Why not in translations?

Hey Pam - we must try and keep a log of these questions.

I asked myself the same question about republishing an entire blog. Would it make more sense to comment and reformulate parts of it to a different audience in a different language quoting chunks of direct speech. Like what I do in my research where I'm "telling the story" from the perspective of my case participants.

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 02:33

Example of who I would do it with

One of the most important blogs for me in Portugal is "Reformar a Educaçao Superior" where the author has wished that he could put out his blog in English too.

I wouldn't have the time or interest to translate everything on his blog but it would be a way for me to keep in the public conversation about Higher Education in Portugal. Part of my motivation would also be that Portuguese bloggers need a voice on the international scene - and to feel accountable to a wider audience. I'm also really interested in the tagging aspect.

I think it's important the relationship is reciprocal otherwise it won't be sustainable. Also all the learning (from translating/interpreting) needs to be spread about.

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 02:45

Has someone formally

Has someone formally submitted this to Elisa? Somehow I think the deadline is today and I think it is a great idea. I'm interested in the spaces between our blogs where language creates chasms!

Nancy White
Blogher Contributing Editor, NPO/NGO
Full Circle Online Interaction Blog

Submitted by Nancy White on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 08:23

I emailed Elisa just now.

I emailed Elisa just now. I'm not sure what formally submitting entails!? I mean, I already call her "O Thou Great Queen of the Universe" and that's pretty submissive. 8-P

Bev, do you want to run it like a panel, and be the moderator? Or I would be happy to moderate/coordinate. But I'd definitely like to be part of it. Nancy, what about you?

Oh, and I posted some more thoughts on the "suggestions" forum. Probably I should repost them here where discussion is happening. Basically: there's a lot of good blogs that could and I even want to say "should" be translated but it's a huge job. That's why I keep thinking in terms of carnivals or other decentralized big structures, to get more people involved or just get the idea rolling.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 10:06

In terms of expertise, I'm

In terms of expertise, I'm just a totally intersted person, not with "credentials" in this topic area. I bet we can find other BLoghers besides me with more chops. I DO want to be in the audience and am happy to facilitate or moderate, but again, I'd think it better to bring in as many new voices as we can. If Blogher keeps putting the same women up front, we're missing opportunity!!!

Nancy White
Blogher Contributing Editor, NPO/NGO
Full Circle Online Interaction Blog

Submitted by Nancy White on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 11:32

Oh, well, I'm not really

Oh, well, I'm not really very credentialled myself. I don't have to be on the panel or whatever, but am definitely interested in making it happen, so, whatever I can do to help that!

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 14:33

What about making a

What about making a Translation Carnival that happens once a month. I will edit the first one. And then pass it to someone else!

On the day of the Translation Carnival, a participant translates one post by another blogger, and posts it on her own blog with a link to the original. They need to trackback me, or email me the information, and I'll compile one big post on the day of the Carnival with links to all the participants.

Let's do it! I'll announce it here and on my other blogs. I would run it off the ALTA site. Bev, would you want to step up and do it next month? What do you think of the idea? Then you'd pass it off to someone else.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 13:53

Okay, it's over here on

Okay, it's over here on ALTA.

I got excited and figured I should just start it and see what happens.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Wed, 02/15/2006 - 14:30

I have a problem with the no word

yeah yeah yeah ... great!

What is it we have to do?

:-)

Liz, the link to ALTA isn't working. Do I know what ALTA is?

Does a ROOO have to be run with a panel or can it be run like a workshop? I'd prefer a workshop type format myself. I'd be happy to co-lead, co-moderate either format.

At the same time I have to keep one eye on sponsorship (I can only come if I get some help with dollars). I'm more likely to get support from my own Institution if I say I'm presenting something on a panel than if I say I'm moderating one.

btrayner@mac.com
http://btrayner.blogspot.com

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 04:29

We could structure it

We could structure it however you want. And I like the idea of workshop - am picturing multilingual tag brainstorms?

I found I was using Technorati to find other-language blogs just by picking a likely tag in that language to search on.

another issue I've thought only a little about: when I take something I've written in English, and tag it in Spanish, is this bad? Is it diluting the Spanish tagosphere? Undermining it? I do it sometimes if I'm writing about translation or Spanish-speaking writers, but then worry it's misdirection, etc.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 09:10

And, oh hell I changed the

And, oh hell I changed the post title and that made the link not work, but here's the new one - ALTAblog hosting the Carnival of Blog Translation.

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
http://liz-henry.blogspot.com

Submitted by Liz Henry on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 09:15

Great stuff here - loving

Great stuff here - loving it. I love the idea of a workshop format. One thing I suggested to Bev on Skype last night was maybe do a longer format workshop the day before, then bring our learnings to the Day 1 of Blogher. Hell, we could meet in my mother's living room! We could keep an IRC channel going and invite in other women from around the world as we go as well.

I wonder if any of the Valley high tech firms are interested in this softer side of multilingual issues. Maybe Yahoo or Google would sponsor us and fly Bev over too?

I like to think wildly...

Nancy White
Blogher Contributing Editor, NPO/NGO
Full Circle Online Interaction Blog

Submitted by Nancy White on Thu, 02/16/2006 - 12:25

Multilingual tagging

I think this is hot stuff! The issue of tagging is really exciting me. I'm focusing on it in my next case for the doc.

Yes! We could have an IRC channel going in English, Spanish and Portuguese! How cool would that be!!

I'd be up for a workshop the day before. I know your mum's great Nancy - but ten of us in the living room? How about the garden instead :-)

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 07:25

What about Technorati ...

... as a potential sponsor?

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Fri, 02/17/2006 - 07:31

What you all said

Please don't mistake my unresponsiveness for lack of interest. I want to read through all this again when I have a little more time and a little less distraction.

Next week, for sure.

Pam

www.nerdseyeview.com

Submitted by Pam on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 09:56

The Flying Apple

The Flying Apple posts in both German and English if that helps. She's here.

Alanna Kellogg, The Veggie Evangelist

Submitted by Alanna Kellogg on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 15:02

Cool...

...

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 17:04

So we're now up to the Link

So we're now up to the second blog translation carnival!

Bev Trayner
Em duas languas

Submitted by Bev Trayner on Thu, 03/02/2006 - 04:30

I'm TRYING!

I've just put a call out to find a sympatico German/English blogging partner. I don't know if I'll make it in time for this one, but I'm hoping to sound off in round three!

Thanks for your efforts.

Nerd's Eye View

Submitted by Pam on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 04:37

There are some here...

But I'm stumbling trying to remember. There is a talented podcaster who is coming to Blogher who I think is German. Oi, spare me from my middle aged brain. It's creative but chaotic!

Full Circle Online Interaction Blog

Submitted by Nancy White on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 09:52

Thanks...

I have a friend in Munich, she's got someone for me who's been publishing a very popular "out to lunch" blog, we're going to see if that won't work. Stand by. Bitte, warten...

Nerd's Eye View

Submitted by Pam on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 11:09