I can understand why some people are opposed to abortion. I will never agree with them, and I do not think that one group of people has the right to impose their religious beliefs regarding when life begins on me or other women, but the impulse to protect life is fair. Thus it seems a rational expectation that if a woman’s life is endangered by pregnancy, people who oppose abortion will respect her life. After all, she is breathing, thinking, feeling, and well, living. And, using their own logic, if she dies during childbirth, then the baby is a murder because he/she killed his/her mother by being born. We should charge the child immediately upon emergence from the dead woman’s body, and then sentence him/her to the death penalty. Justice will be served.
However, it seems that not all life is equal. Since a vengeful God chose to punish Eve for her sinful acts (first eating the forbidden fruit, then, worse, tempting Adam to eat it), it is OK for women to die in childbirth. Women have less of a right to life than a baby does. And if her life could be saved by terminating a pregnancy, it is morally right to let an autonomous, living person – possibly a mother to other children; a beloved daughter, sister, friend – die because it is wrong to take the life of a fetus.
Pardon my French, but that is seriously fucked up logic.
And yet, Nicaragua proudly joined the ranks of the extremely hypocritical (charter members: El Salvador; South Dakota only wishes it was in the exclusively stupid club) by banning abortions to save the lives of pregnant women. I feel like lawmakers there, who passed the ban by a unanimous measure of 52-0, were trying to outdo the misquoted Marie Antoinette, by saying “Let them eat death.â€
It is not like obtaining a life-saving abortion was easy. According to IPS News:
Nicaragua's penal code allows for therapeutic abortions when they are deemed necessary on a sound scientific and medical basis, "with the involvement of at least three doctors, and consent from the woman's husband or next of kin."
Right. So if your husband wanted you dead for some reason, or you couldn’t afford three doctors, a woman was already left to die by the previous law. (You know, it is just plain wrong to allow women to decide whether or not they should live on their own. We tend to be so hysterical and irrational when it comes to making crisis decisions, you know.)
In a discussion on the issue, Digg News attracted a variety of comments, many noting that women deserved to be punished for daring to have sex, and death seemed a reasonable penalty to impose. One fine example:
Sex for pleasure still ultimately reduces to gambling. And if you want to gamble, that's great. But when you lose, pay up.
I’ve said it here before, and I’ll say it again: why are children considered a punishment? Perhaps this explains the disturbing policies that many of our fine life-loving friends have when it comes to refusing to fund child care, health insurance, and education for the kiddies resulting from the violations of a woman who had S-E-X.
Another, more terrifying comment:
Furthermore even if the mother's life is in danger why not to the noble thing. Bring a new life into the world and sacrifice yourself.
Yes, dying and leaving a child motherless (and potentially other children as well as other people who rely on the dead woman) is the most noble thing one can do. Most mothers will willingly give their lives to save their children, but forcing them to do so is not love or compassion. (For all those New Testament aficionados out there, please note: even Mary was not required to die to bring Jesus into the world, so this seems like an awful lot to require from regular women.)
One brave soul has the audacity to insist that women have rights:
Abortion is simply giving pregnant women the same rights over their own bodies that everyone else already enjoys. If you have something in your body, growing against your will, then you should have the right to take it out even if it has human DNA - no matter how it got there. Maybe it's a tumor, maybe it's a fetus, maybe it's a famous violinist who's been implanted into your body by aliens; doesn't matter, it has no right to stay inside your body. If it can survive outside your body, then more power to it, but if not, your rights still come first.
I’d agree with her and say that this is in fact a human rights issue, but that would mean that women would need to be considered human, and clearly we are not.
Women in Nicaragua and Latin America with the misguided idea that they are human and deserve a right to life, are protesting. An article (in Spanish) at La Prensa includes a picture of a pregnant women marching against her potential death sentence, along with other second class citizens. Global Voices Online linked to Costa Rican blogger Julia Ardón who reprinted a public letter signed by the Nicaraguan Association of Writers (ANIDE) [ES] demanding that exceptions be reinstated for women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy (also in Spanish). And Juana Jimenez, an activist in Nicaragua, told IPS News that:
…the medical grounds for therapeutic abortion have been established, and that if this article were eliminated they would be in violation of the principle of saving lives -- with the particularity that it would be women who would die, because it is we who have the biological capacity to procreate…
Unfortunately, people who hate women have absolutely no problem with that.
Suzanne erroneously thinks that she is a human despite being a woman, and blogs about it at Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants
Comments
Oh...where to start? I can't
Oh...where to start?
I can't comment on the Nicaraguan law because I would have to actually read it to know more about it.
Most pro-life people would make exceptions in the case of imminent death of the mother.
Has there ever actually been a prosecution in the US of any woman who has had an abortion before it was made legal? Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that there has. Maybe of doctors performing them, but women?
Pro-life people don't look at children as punishment. I think the attitude your referring to has less to do with punishing the woman and more to do with irresponsibility.
If you had a shiny new car that you loved to drive around and one day you smashed someone else's car with it, would it be considered punishment for you to take care of the other person's mechanical repairs? No, you wouldn't call that punishment...you would call it taking responsibility for something that happened....even if it was just an accident. Would it stink that the car that you loved got messed up? Yes. Would it stink that you might have to pay money out of your pocket to fix someone else's car? Yes. Would it be the right thing to refuse to do so just because you didn't mean for it to happen? No.
Consequences are not punishment. They just exist. Is it the right thing to try and avoid taking responsibility for things that happen in your life? If a woman has a child and the father doesn't want it, is it OK for him to turn his back on the child and walk away? We would say that is horrible and cruel to the child. We wouldn't say he was being punished because he would be expected to help provide for something he helped bring into the world.
In life things usually don't go along as planned.
People lose jobs, people get sick, the stock market drops and people lose their retirement savings; unexpected things happen all the time. Just because someone becomes pregnant does not mean that their life is over. Sometimes an unexpected child becomes the source of much joy once the shock and fear pass.
Whenever the pro-choice arguments come out they always revolve around the most extreme cases...rape, incest, the life of the mother. I would dare to say that out of the millions of abortions performed annually, those cases are a drop in the bucket. Most are elective procedures.
Terri
Wheat Among Tares
It's already illegal in Nicaragua
Abortion under any circumstance except to save the life of the mother was already banned in Nicaragua, so the other cases you mention are moot. Thus no matter how infrequently an abortion was performed to save the life of a woman, she will now be condemned to death without any say in the matter unless she has the means to leave the country.
Also, while it is true that sometimes an unexpected child can bring joy, it is absolutely not always the case. I met a woman last week who already has and cherishes her daughter, who was not planned. When she found out she was pregnant again, she feel into a deep depression because she was barely making it work for her one child. She considered suicide. Sure, maybe once the kid was born she'd change her mind, but that is a huge risk to ask her and her existing daughter to take. And even assuming she gave the child up for adoption, she is taking on dangers and risks to her health and life:
Swelling
Nausea
Back pain
Exhaustion
Diabetes
Toxemia/pre-eclampsia
Incontinence
Fistulas
Even the most minor of these conditions can have dramatic effects on her family, as it would prevent her from working (she's a home health aide - you can't be puking and peeing on the patients and you need to lift them).
These are not easy decisions for anyone, and it is why it is up to the women who must live with the consequences of their decisions to be the people who make these decisions for themselves.
Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminsim & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants
Well...
Ideally, what you're saying makes sense. Except there are plenty of people (many of whom happen to be "pro-lifers") who are not promoting acceptance of consequences, they are truly suggesting that women accept their offspring as punishment for their irresponsible sex. They are wagging their finger and saying "That's what you get!" This is a common stance, this "well if you didn't want to have a baby, you should've kept your legs closed, now deal with it (the way we want you to deal with it)!"
Every pro-life supporter is not a raving lunatic, obviously, but many people can be extremely classist, racist, sexist, etc. about how families are formed, and some act as though they truly believe that children (and poverty, and sickness) are deserved consequences resulting from low moral fiber. This is unfortunate. Because every conception simply isn't going to lead to joy. Many of them are going to lead to pain, rejection, indifference, anger, apathy and so on. Because parents do not receive enough support in this society, and children are seen as next-to-worthless, in spite of the 'Save the Children!' lipservice rhetoric we're all so familiar with. And sex education is substandard (sex ed includes learning how to use birth control appropriately), and we all know that you can't keep people from fucking, making love, getting it on and generally having sex (Support the REAL Act! Support OWL!).
I would also comment that your use of the term "elective procedures" reads as though you are suggesting that if an abortion is not one of these "drop in the bucket" extreme cases, that it is somehow, by and large, more casual. I would hope that you were not suggesting that, but that's how it reads to me. If you are suggesting that, I'm curious as to why.
Atena
Assumptions, Biases & Irrational Fantasies
Double Agents: Blogging Mamalife, Creativy & the Human Experience
Well, people can say a lot
Well, people can say a lot of stupid things sometimes. Of course there are obnoxious pro-lifers just as there are a lot of obnoxious pro-choicers.
The "right" is always descibed as the "christian right" and I think that it is very inaccurate. Within the right there exists a group of people who I would call "traditionalists." These are people who hold very similar views as the christian segment, but who are motivated less by religious belief, and more by cultural beliefs...i.e. Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter..etc. What's the difference? Truly christian pro-lifers care very much about the women who are considering abortion. They devote time and money to Pregnancy Centers that offer alternatives to abortion. All of the Pregnancy Centers that my husband and I have donated to always have programs to support the mothers after they give birth. They provide clothes for the mother and baby, baby furniture, formula, diapers, and anything else that a woman might need to care for a child. They also have support groups and counseling for the mothers to help them through the difficult times. They continue services well after the child is born. They have adoption services if the mother decides she really can't, or doesn't want to raise her child.
I would say that there are segments of pro-lifers that aren't motivated by love or concern for these women. They believe that life begins at conception but don't have the love of God within their own hearts to offer it to these women.
It is always dangerous to know the "laws" of God, but not to know Him personally in one's own life. It makes people very apt to condemn everyone around them for their faults, but offer them no help, love, or safety in which to turn away from certain things.
As far as my comment about "elective" procedures....I meant only to point out that the extreme arugments used by pro-choice people really don't apply to most abortions. Some women feel that abortion is a gut-wrenching decision that they made. There are others who do take it more casually. But, there are people who make all kinds of really bad decisions because they can't see past where they are in a particular moment. They feel hopeless. My only desire would be to offer hope to those who need it.
Terri
Wheat Among Tares
every child a wanted child
Every mother a willing mother.
I marched to that slogan before abortion was decriminalized in Canada.
I now have two beautiful children (and a miscarriage between the two that caused much grief).
And I believe those words more strongly than ever.
Children deserve a loving, comfortable home, access to medical treatment and a range of support services that help ensure every child has a chance to lead a healthy, happy, productive life.
Every women has a right to life and to determine what happens to her body.
The fact that this right is under attack in places not so far from my home truly frightens me.
laurie
www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com